Open Debrief: The End of Roe and What Comes Next

“Nonprofits don’t have separate recruiters. Their attorneys are taking time away from their work to do recruiting, so there usually isn’t the same full court press at law schools like you see for firms. Students need to seek out employers. The summer hiring cycle is structured in a way where students have to make these decisions very early, but public interest decisions tend to be made later.”

-Mary Murphy, Career Counselor, William Wayne Justice Center for Public Interest Law at University of Texas School of Law

“Most nonprofits don’t hire until late. You will see friends getting law firm offers early, and you will be facing a mountain of debt and not knowing how you will pay it off until right around graduation. Unfortunately you just have to stick it out and have faith that it’s going to happen. More communities are adopting right to counsel and other programs expanding services, so more direct services jobs are becoming available.”

-Eric Tars, Legal Director, National Homelessness Law Center

“It doesn’t happen as early as it does for corporate jobs, but for the students that are willing to stick it out and live with some uncertainty for longer, we are in a mad dash to hire in housing and other areas right now.”

-Munonyedi Clifford, Attorney-in-Charge of the City Wide Housing Practice, Legal Aid Society

“We don’t have a ton of public interest organizations in the area, so networking number one way to get jobs. The most successful students are the ones who build relationships early with public interest employers rather than waiting on the public interest hiring cycle to make their first introductions to the people they hope to work with.”

-Nikki Harris, Associate Director of Career Development and Public Interest Advisor, UNLV Law

“I need to see a commitment to public interest work. I look to students’ school year and summer internships or volunteering on the side. For folks taking a law firm position for their first and second year summers, I need to see that they are still doing public interest work. If I can’t see anywhere else that you are committed to public interest work, then your resume is getting tossed, regardless of other skills.”

-Eric Tars, Legal Director, National Homelessness Law Center

“Having a wide array of interests is something really useful and helpful in being able to draw connections across legal areas, along with some kind of client oriented experience. We look for folks who look like they have shown initiative and tried new things and are comfortable doing things that are outside of the box. For students, this most often means internships, previous work experience, and independent research.”

-David Seligman, Executive Director, Towards Justice

“We are looking for people who demonstrated throughout law school or their previous career that this is what they want to do. We do hire laterals but are first attracted to people who have put a line in the sand and said this is what they want to do. It doesn’t necessarily have to be public defense specifically, but we like to see people who want to help people, through public defense, legal aid, whatever else that is getting you out working with real people on the issues most impactful for their lives.”

-Sharone Mitchell Jr., Chief Public Defender, Cook County, IL

“We want to make sure we are attracting the right people who have an interest in our work and that they are committed to it. The first thing I am looking for is jobs, internships, volunteer positions, or articles related to our work and showing a commitment to public service.”

-Munonyedi Clifford, Attorney-in-Charge of the City Wide Housing Practice, Legal Aid Society

“Law review and moot court may help if you are passionate about the work, but they are certainly not prerequisites. It’s up to you in your resume or cover letter to sell other experiences to show that you were prioritizing other work over typical gold stars. For example, research assistant positions with professors working in civil rights or social justice fields are great opportunities to develop good research and writing skills beyond what you would get on law review, and these can be better options for public interest oriented students.”

-Eric Tars, Legal Director, National Homelessness Law Center

“Nonprofits don’t usually care as much about law review and moot court. They are interested in students who are willing to learn the practice area and who are good at taking feedback. Interpersonal skills are also very important, which the right candidates can show in an interview.”

-Nikki Harris, Associate Director of Career Development and Public Interest Advisor, UNLV Law

“What I am looking for is an empathetic person who wants to do this work and support folks–our clients, their families, and each other. This is difficult work, and people burn out easily. It helps to have empathy and to want to support people and to be comfortable in a lot of different spaces.”

-Sharone Mitchell Jr., Chief Public Defender, Cook County, IL

“It’s great to see some kind of client-oriented experience where we can see that a candidate knows how to engage with people and work with different communities. What matters most is that we feel like we can trust them to manage client relationships and to be responsible and responsive. Those skills can come from all different kinds of experiences, either professional or personal.”

-David Seligman, Executive Director, Towards Justice

“You can learn almost any area of substantive law on the job. Don’t waste your time on anything you think you need to know just because everyone says you need to take it for the bar. What is most important is how you think about the law. Courses on critical race theory, critical gender theory, and other classes where you are doing close analysis, research, and writing are very helpful.”

-Eric Tars, Legal Director, National Homelessness Law Center

“Don’t only take one kind of course. Interest in lots of different areas of law  and having a wide array of interests is something really useful in being able to draw connections across legal areas.”

-David Seligman, Executive Director, Towards Justice

“On the public interest side, employers tend to look for research and writing skills and oratorical and advocacy skills. Classes where students are digging in and doing some of the actual work that they will use in their careers can be very helpful.”

-Nikki Harris, Associate Director of Career Development and Public Interest Advisor, UNLV Law

“I never place weight on grades in the abstract. They might be part of a broader picture, but what is most important is are you curious about the law? Are you interested in moving the law and seeing legal problems from different perspectives? Can you bring creativity and insights to these things. Academic work can tell something about these issues, but not a lot on their own.”

-David Seligman, Executive Director, Towards Justice

“I don’t particularly give a shit about grades. Course selection is more important than grades because it can show us where your interests lie.”

-Sharone Mitchell Jr., Chief Public Defender, Cook County, IL

“Law school is when you have the time and space to focus on the topics and skill sets that will help you with what you want to do. If you want to help people after law school, start helping them during law school too. You can pick up the doctrinal law that I would see you know from your grades on the way in your career anyway.”

-Eric Tars, Legal Director, National Homelessness Law Center

“Class rank doesn’t matter to me. Grades can say something, but mostly just to see that you’re going to class, so it may tell something about job performance for candidates with less professional experience. I’m not sure that you can get an F and still set yourself apart, but ultimately it’s not the most important consideration.”

-Munonyedi Clifford, Attorney-in-Charge of the City Wide Housing Practice, Legal Aid Society

“For nonprofits, grades don’t matter as much. They seem to be more concerned with questions like whether students understand the clients they serve. They seem to be looking more for students with empathy and who are coachable.”

-Nikki Harris, Associate Director of Career Development and Public Interest Advisor, UNLV Law

“The vast majority of public interest organizations don’t care as much about grades–maybe some of the elite orgs like your ACLUs and others, but overall it’s less of a consideration. These organizations seem to care more about experience. Things like clinics, pro bono work, and previous experience. Experience that helps you know how to work with communities makes a big difference. Experience is so much more important than grades.”

-Mary Murphy, Career Counselor, William Wayne Justice Center for Public Interest Law at University of Texas School of Law